Ritter197 wrote:
> I have gotten a new 4400+ HP computer, dual core, with WindowsXP.
> SP#2
> It takes sometimes forever (last night I went to bed and in the
> morning it still had not shut down)
>
> I have run 3 different programs (Ad-aware, Spybot search and
> destroy and Adware away) plus an AV program NOD32. None find a
> problem.
> I have also run a defrag with Diskkeeper 10 two days ago, ( it is
> also set to defrag in the background) but it still has this big
> problem with shutdown.
>
> My 2.8Ghz computer shuts down almost immediately by comparison,
> running the same Windows XP, SP #2 and many more programs.
>
> What are your ideas here ?

Make sure this is *not* enabled...
http://www.theeldergeek.com/clear_pagefile_on_system_shutdown.htm

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Unless you have some ideas to start your research, you're going to have
to do a tedious process of elimination. Basically, you start with
nothing running at startup and then add one program at a time until you
find the culprit.

Did I mention it was tedious? However, it works.

"Resources to help troubleshoot shutdown problems in Windows XP"
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/308029/en-us

"Support WebCast: Microsoft Windows XP: Troubleshooting Startup and
Shutdown Problems" (nominated for an Emmy in the Geek category)
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/326841/en-us

"How to perform advanced clean-boot troubleshooting in Windows XP"
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/316434/en-us

Let us know the culprit once you find it.

---
Ted Zieglar
"Backup is a computer user's best friend."

Ritter197 wrote:
> I have gotten a new 4400+ HP computer, dual core, with WindowsXP. SP#2
>
> It takes sometimes forever (last night I went to bed and in the morning it
> still had not shut down)
>
> I have run 3 different programs (Ad-aware, Spybot search and destroy and
> Adware away) plus an AV program NOD32. None find a problem.
>
> I have also run a defrag with Diskkeeper 10 two days ago, ( it is also set
> to defrag in the background) but it still has this big problem with
> shutdown.
>
> My 2.8Ghz computer shuts down almost immediately by comparison, running the
> same Windows XP, SP #2 and many more programs.
>
> What are your ideas here ?
>
>
>

I have gotten a new 4400+ HP computer, dual core, with WindowsXP. SP#2

It takes sometimes forever (last night I went to bed and in the morning it
still had not shut down)

I have run 3 different programs (Ad-aware, Spybot search and destroy and
Adware away) plus an AV program NOD32. None find a problem.

I have also run a defrag with Diskkeeper 10 two days ago, ( it is also set
to defrag in the background) but it still has this big problem with
shutdown.

My 2.8Ghz computer shuts down almost immediately by comparison, running the
same Windows XP, SP #2 and many more programs.

What are your ideas here ?

Look in the Event Viewer Log for possible errors and clues.

John

Ritter197 wrote:

> I have gotten a new 4400+ HP computer, dual core, with WindowsXP. SP#2
>
> It takes sometimes forever (last night I went to bed and in the morning it
> still had not shut down)
>
> I have run 3 different programs (Ad-aware, Spybot search and destroy and
> Adware away) plus an AV program NOD32. None find a problem.
>
> I have also run a defrag with Diskkeeper 10 two days ago, ( it is also set
> to defrag in the background) but it still has this big problem with
> shutdown.
>
> My 2.8Ghz computer shuts down almost immediately by comparison, running the
> same Windows XP, SP #2 and many more programs.
>
> What are your ideas here ?
>
>
>

a) start/run/type: msconfig (enter)
go to start an uncheck all the items and restart the computer...see what
hapen
b) maybe one update to xp over an old windows is the problem
c) if the installation was clean check if bios is standart APM
--
Saludos cordiales !
regards
R.E.Fernandez
http://reinaldoefernandezspain.spaces.live.com/?mkt=en-us
http://reinaldoefernandez.spaces.live.com/
http://eduardofernandez.bitacoras.com/
"Ritter197" <Ritter197 RemoveThis @Verizon.net> escribió en el mensaje
news:gKCUg.2929$Pk2.753@trnddc08...
>I have gotten a new 4400+ HP computer, dual core, with WindowsXP. SP#2
>
> It takes sometimes forever (last night I went to bed and in the morning it
> still had not shut down)
>
> I have run 3 different programs (Ad-aware, Spybot search and destroy and
> Adware away) plus an AV program NOD32. None find a problem.
>
> I have also run a defrag with Diskkeeper 10 two days ago, ( it is also
> set to defrag in the background) but it still has this big problem with
> shutdown.
>
> My 2.8Ghz computer shuts down almost immediately by comparison, running
> the same Windows XP, SP #2 and many more programs.
>
> What are your ideas here ?
>
>
>

"Ritter197" <Ritter197.DeleteThis@Verizon.net> wrote in message
news:gKCUg.2929$Pk2.753@trnddc08...
>I have gotten a new 4400+ HP computer, dual core, with WindowsXP. SP#2
>
> It takes sometimes forever (last night I went to bed and in the morning it
> still had not shut down)
>
> I have run 3 different programs (Ad-aware, Spybot search and destroy and
> Adware away) plus an AV program NOD32. None find a problem.
>
> I have also run a defrag with Diskkeeper 10 two days ago, ( it is also
> set to defrag in the background) but it still has this big problem with
> shutdown.
>
> My 2.8Ghz computer shuts down almost immediately by comparison, running
> the same Windows XP, SP #2 and many more programs.
>
> What are your ideas here ?
>
>
>

For starters, check the Event Viewer (Run eventvwr.msc) entries under
Application, System corresponding to time when shutdown was initiated.

--
woundedback
Please drive safely

basically, it didn't take forever to shutdown.
simply putting it, the system didn't shutdown.


likely an issue with hardware....
try testing the theory via safemode..

"Ritter197" <Ritter197 RemoveThis @Verizon.net> wrote in message
news:gKCUg.2929$Pk2.753@trnddc08...
>I have gotten a new 4400+ HP computer, dual core, with WindowsXP. SP#2
>
> It takes sometimes forever (last night I went to bed and in the morning it
> still had not shut down)
>
> I have run 3 different programs (Ad-aware, Spybot search and destroy and
> Adware away) plus an AV program NOD32. None find a problem.
>
> I have also run a defrag with Diskkeeper 10 two days ago, ( it is also
> set to defrag in the background) but it still has this big problem with
> shutdown.
>
> My 2.8Ghz computer shuts down almost immediately by comparison, running
> the same Windows XP, SP #2 and many more programs.
>
> What are your ideas here ?
>
>
>

In Safe mode it shuts down very quickly.

Should I try uninstalling 1 application after another and see each time
whether that makes the shutdown quick?


"DatabaseBen" <databaseben.RemoveThis@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:O81mxh05GHA.3952@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
> basically, it didn't take forever to shutdown.
> simply putting it, the system didn't shutdown.
>
>
> likely an issue with hardware....
> try testing the theory via safemode..
>
> "Ritter197" <Ritter197.RemoveThis@Verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:gKCUg.2929$Pk2.753@trnddc08...
>>I have gotten a new 4400+ HP computer, dual core, with WindowsXP. SP#2
>>
>> It takes sometimes forever (last night I went to bed and in the morning
>> it still had not shut down)
>>
>> I have run 3 different programs (Ad-aware, Spybot search and destroy and
>> Adware away) plus an AV program NOD32. None find a problem.
>>
>> I have also run a defrag with Diskkeeper 10 two days ago, ( it is also
>> set to defrag in the background) but it still has this big problem with
>> shutdown.
>>
>> My 2.8Ghz computer shuts down almost immediately by comparison, running
>> the same Windows XP, SP #2 and many more programs.
>>
>> What are your ideas here ?
>>
>>
>>
>
>

I went to the event log and see that it stops a number of times at
"application hangs" but it does not give the name of the application.

It also stopped at an userevent #1517 .

In Safe Mode it shuts down very quickly.




"WB" <woundedbackREMOVETHIS DeleteThis @sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:%23Z6jCl05GHA.1256@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
> "Ritter197" <Ritter197 DeleteThis @Verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:gKCUg.2929$Pk2.753@trnddc08...
>>I have gotten a new 4400+ HP computer, dual core, with WindowsXP. SP#2
>>
>> It takes sometimes forever (last night I went to bed and in the morning
>> it still had not shut down)
>>
>> I have run 3 different programs (Ad-aware, Spybot search and destroy and
>> Adware away) plus an AV program NOD32. None find a problem.
>>
>> I have also run a defrag with Diskkeeper 10 two days ago, ( it is also
>> set to defrag in the background) but it still has this big problem with
>> shutdown.
>>
>> My 2.8Ghz computer shuts down almost immediately by comparison, running
>> the same Windows XP, SP #2 and many more programs.
>>
>> What are your ideas here ?
>>
>>
>>
>
> For starters, check the Event Viewer (Run eventvwr.msc) entries under
> Application, System corresponding to time when shutdown was initiated.
>
> --
> woundedback
> Please drive safely
>

I have tried that before, did not help.


"REFernandez" <eduardo2300X RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:u9yEMO15GHA.940@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> a) start/run/type: msconfig (enter)
> go to start an uncheck all the items and restart the computer...see what
> hapen
> b) maybe one update to xp over an old windows is the problem
> c) if the installation was clean check if bios is standart APM
> --
> Saludos cordiales !
> regards
> R.E.Fernandez
> http://reinaldoefernandezspain.spaces.live.com/?mkt=en-us
> http://reinaldoefernandez.spaces.live.com/
> http://eduardofernandez.bitacoras.com/
> "Ritter197" <Ritter197 RemoveThis @Verizon.net> escribió en el mensaje
> news:gKCUg.2929$Pk2.753@trnddc08...
>>I have gotten a new 4400+ HP computer, dual core, with WindowsXP. SP#2
>>
>> It takes sometimes forever (last night I went to bed and in the morning
>> it still had not shut down)
>>
>> I have run 3 different programs (Ad-aware, Spybot search and destroy and
>> Adware away) plus an AV program NOD32. None find a problem.
>>
>> I have also run a defrag with Diskkeeper 10 two days ago, ( it is also
>> set to defrag in the background) but it still has this big problem with
>> shutdown.
>>
>> My 2.8Ghz computer shuts down almost immediately by comparison, running
>> the same Windows XP, SP #2 and many more programs.
>>
>> What are your ideas here ?
>>
>>
>>
>
>

ok,

in safe mode only first party drivers are loaded
while in normal mode first, second and third party drivers are all
loaded.

try going to sysinternals.com and download autoruns
this will reveal all the drivers loaded and give you
the opportunity to remove them.

it will divide the processes into tabs.
then review each line item and uncheck the ones
that is not needed or shouldn't be required by your system.
then double click the filename and the registry will open and
show you the modifications. If you change your mind later
you can recheck the disabled item.

But it would be my
guess that any process that interferes with your system,
shouldn't be required to automaticatlly run without your help
or knowledge.


"Ritter197" <Ritter197 DeleteThis @Verizon.net> wrote in message
news:dcEUg.7132$pS3.5660@trnddc01...
> In Safe mode it shuts down very quickly.
>
> Should I try uninstalling 1 application after another and see each time
> whether that makes the shutdown quick?
>
>
> "DatabaseBen" <databaseben DeleteThis @discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:O81mxh05GHA.3952@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>
>> basically, it didn't take forever to shutdown.
>> simply putting it, the system didn't shutdown.
>>
>>
>> likely an issue with hardware....
>> try testing the theory via safemode..
>>
>> "Ritter197" <Ritter197 DeleteThis @Verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:gKCUg.2929$Pk2.753@trnddc08...
>>>I have gotten a new 4400+ HP computer, dual core, with WindowsXP. SP#2
>>>
>>> It takes sometimes forever (last night I went to bed and in the morning
>>> it still had not shut down)
>>>
>>> I have run 3 different programs (Ad-aware, Spybot search and destroy and
>>> Adware away) plus an AV program NOD32. None find a problem.
>>>
>>> I have also run a defrag with Diskkeeper 10 two days ago, ( it is also
>>> set to defrag in the background) but it still has this big problem with
>>> shutdown.
>>>
>>> My 2.8Ghz computer shuts down almost immediately by comparison, running
>>> the same Windows XP, SP #2 and many more programs.
>>>
>>> What are your ideas here ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

What is the definition of a "first party" driver? And what are "second
party" and "third party" drivers?

---
Ted Zieglar
"Backup is a computer user's best friend."

DatabaseBen wrote:
> ok,
>
> in safe mode only first party drivers are loaded
> while in normal mode first, second and third party drivers are all
> loaded.
>
> try going to sysinternals.com and download autoruns
> this will reveal all the drivers loaded and give you
> the opportunity to remove them.
>
> it will divide the processes into tabs.
> then review each line item and uncheck the ones
> that is not needed or shouldn't be required by your system.
> then double click the filename and the registry will open and
> show you the modifications. If you change your mind later
> you can recheck the disabled item.
>
> But it would be my
> guess that any process that interferes with your system,
> shouldn't be required to automaticatlly run without your help
> or knowledge.
>
>
> "Ritter197" <Ritter197.TakeThisOut@Verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:dcEUg.7132$pS3.5660@trnddc01...
>> In Safe mode it shuts down very quickly.
>>
>> Should I try uninstalling 1 application after another and see each time
>> whether that makes the shutdown quick?
>>
>>
>> "DatabaseBen" <databaseben.TakeThisOut@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:O81mxh05GHA.3952@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>> basically, it didn't take forever to shutdown.
>>> simply putting it, the system didn't shutdown.
>>>
>>>
>>> likely an issue with hardware....
>>> try testing the theory via safemode..
>>>
>>> "Ritter197" <Ritter197.TakeThisOut@Verizon.net> wrote in message
>>> news:gKCUg.2929$Pk2.753@trnddc08...
>>>> I have gotten a new 4400+ HP computer, dual core, with WindowsXP. SP#2
>>>>
>>>> It takes sometimes forever (last night I went to bed and in the morning
>>>> it still had not shut down)
>>>>
>>>> I have run 3 different programs (Ad-aware, Spybot search and destroy and
>>>> Adware away) plus an AV program NOD32. None find a problem.
>>>>
>>>> I have also run a defrag with Diskkeeper 10 two days ago, ( it is also
>>>> set to defrag in the background) but it still has this big problem with
>>>> shutdown.
>>>>
>>>> My 2.8Ghz computer shuts down almost immediately by comparison, running
>>>> the same Windows XP, SP #2 and many more programs.
>>>>
>>>> What are your ideas here ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

first party refers to "microsoft" the maker of "windows o.s."

third party refers to companies not related to the first party





"Ted Zieglar" <teddy.z.DeleteThis@news.invalid> wrote in message
news:ezbMfv75GHA.2288@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> What is the definition of a "first party" driver? And what are "second
> party" and "third party" drivers?
>
> ---
> Ted Zieglar
> "Backup is a computer user's best friend."
>
> DatabaseBen wrote:
>> ok,
>>
>> in safe mode only first party drivers are loaded
>> while in normal mode first, second and third party drivers are all
>> loaded.
>>
>> try going to sysinternals.com and download autoruns
>> this will reveal all the drivers loaded and give you
>> the opportunity to remove them.
>>
>> it will divide the processes into tabs.
>> then review each line item and uncheck the ones
>> that is not needed or shouldn't be required by your system.
>> then double click the filename and the registry will open and
>> show you the modifications. If you change your mind later
>> you can recheck the disabled item.
>>
>> But it would be my
>> guess that any process that interferes with your system,
>> shouldn't be required to automaticatlly run without your help
>> or knowledge.
>>
>>
>> "Ritter197" <Ritter197.DeleteThis@Verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:dcEUg.7132$pS3.5660@trnddc01...
>>> In Safe mode it shuts down very quickly.
>>>
>>> Should I try uninstalling 1 application after another and see each time
>>> whether that makes the shutdown quick?
>>>
>>>
>>> "DatabaseBen" <databaseben.DeleteThis@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>> news:O81mxh05GHA.3952@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>> basically, it didn't take forever to shutdown.
>>>> simply putting it, the system didn't shutdown.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> likely an issue with hardware....
>>>> try testing the theory via safemode..
>>>>
>>>> "Ritter197" <Ritter197.DeleteThis@Verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:gKCUg.2929$Pk2.753@trnddc08...
>>>>> I have gotten a new 4400+ HP computer, dual core, with WindowsXP. SP#2
>>>>>
>>>>> It takes sometimes forever (last night I went to bed and in the
>>>>> morning it still had not shut down)
>>>>>
>>>>> I have run 3 different programs (Ad-aware, Spybot search and destroy
>>>>> and Adware away) plus an AV program NOD32. None find a problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have also run a defrag with Diskkeeper 10 two days ago, ( it is
>>>>> also set to defrag in the background) but it still has this big
>>>>> problem with shutdown.
>>>>>
>>>>> My 2.8Ghz computer shuts down almost immediately by comparison,
>>>>> running the same Windows XP, SP #2 and many more programs.
>>>>>
>>>>> What are your ideas here ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>

Ted Zieglar wrote:

> So who's the "second party"?


http://abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/stories/s20753.htm


--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup



> DatabaseBen wrote:
>> first party refers to "microsoft" the maker of "windows o.s."
>>
>> third party refers to companies not related to the first party
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Ted Zieglar" <teddy.z.RemoveThis@news.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:ezbMfv75GHA.2288@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>> What is the definition of a "first party" driver? And what are
>>> "second party" and "third party" drivers?
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Ted Zieglar
>>> "Backup is a computer user's best friend."
>>>
>>> DatabaseBen wrote:
>>>> ok,
>>>>
>>>> in safe mode only first party drivers are loaded
>>>> while in normal mode first, second and third party drivers are all
>>>> loaded.
>>>>
>>>> try going to sysinternals.com and download autoruns
>>>> this will reveal all the drivers loaded and give you
>>>> the opportunity to remove them.
>>>>
>>>> it will divide the processes into tabs.
>>>> then review each line item and uncheck the ones
>>>> that is not needed or shouldn't be required by your system.
>>>> then double click the filename and the registry will open and
>>>> show you the modifications. If you change your mind later
>>>> you can recheck the disabled item.
>>>>
>>>> But it would be my
>>>> guess that any process that interferes with your system,
>>>> shouldn't be required to automaticatlly run without your help
>>>> or knowledge.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Ritter197" <Ritter197.RemoveThis@Verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:dcEUg.7132$pS3.5660@trnddc01...
>>>>> In Safe mode it shuts down very quickly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Should I try uninstalling 1 application after another and see
>>>>> each time whether that makes the shutdown quick?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "DatabaseBen" <databaseben.RemoveThis@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
>>>>> message news:O81mxh05GHA.3952@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> basically, it didn't take forever to shutdown.
>>>>>> simply putting it, the system didn't shutdown.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> likely an issue with hardware....
>>>>>> try testing the theory via safemode..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Ritter197" <Ritter197.RemoveThis@Verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:gKCUg.2929$Pk2.753@trnddc08...
>>>>>>> I have gotten a new 4400+ HP computer, dual core, with
>>>>>>> WindowsXP. SP#2 It takes sometimes forever (last night I went to bed
>>>>>>> and in the
>>>>>>> morning it still had not shut down)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have run 3 different programs (Ad-aware, Spybot search and
>>>>>>> destroy and Adware away) plus an AV program NOD32. None find a
>>>>>>> problem. I have also run a defrag with Diskkeeper 10 two days ago,
>>>>>>> (
>>>>>>> it is also set to defrag in the background) but it still has
>>>>>>> this big problem with shutdown.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My 2.8Ghz computer shuts down almost immediately by comparison,
>>>>>>> running the same Windows XP, SP #2 and many more programs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are your ideas here ?

Ted Zieglar wrote:

> So who's the "second party"?


http://abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/stories/s20753.htm


--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup



> DatabaseBen wrote:
>> first party refers to "microsoft" the maker of "windows o.s."
>>
>> third party refers to companies not related to the first party
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Ted Zieglar" <teddy.z.RemoveThis@news.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:ezbMfv75GHA.2288@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>> What is the definition of a "first party" driver? And what are
>>> "second party" and "third party" drivers?
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Ted Zieglar
>>> "Backup is a computer user's best friend."
>>>
>>> DatabaseBen wrote:
>>>> ok,
>>>>
>>>> in safe mode only first party drivers are loaded
>>>> while in normal mode first, second and third party drivers are all
>>>> loaded.
>>>>
>>>> try going to sysinternals.com and download autoruns
>>>> this will reveal all the drivers loaded and give you
>>>> the opportunity to remove them.
>>>>
>>>> it will divide the processes into tabs.
>>>> then review each line item and uncheck the ones
>>>> that is not needed or shouldn't be required by your system.
>>>> then double click the filename and the registry will open and
>>>> show you the modifications. If you change your mind later
>>>> you can recheck the disabled item.
>>>>
>>>> But it would be my
>>>> guess that any process that interferes with your system,
>>>> shouldn't be required to automaticatlly run without your help
>>>> or knowledge.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Ritter197" <Ritter197.RemoveThis@Verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:dcEUg.7132$pS3.5660@trnddc01...
>>>>> In Safe mode it shuts down very quickly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Should I try uninstalling 1 application after another and see
>>>>> each time whether that makes the shutdown quick?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "DatabaseBen" <databaseben.RemoveThis@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
>>>>> message news:O81mxh05GHA.3952@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> basically, it didn't take forever to shutdown.
>>>>>> simply putting it, the system didn't shutdown.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> likely an issue with hardware....
>>>>>> try testing the theory via safemode..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Ritter197" <Ritter197.RemoveThis@Verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:gKCUg.2929$Pk2.753@trnddc08...
>>>>>>> I have gotten a new 4400+ HP computer, dual core, with
>>>>>>> WindowsXP. SP#2 It takes sometimes forever (last night I went to bed
>>>>>>> and in the
>>>>>>> morning it still had not shut down)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have run 3 different programs (Ad-aware, Spybot search and
>>>>>>> destroy and Adware away) plus an AV program NOD32. None find a
>>>>>>> problem. I have also run a defrag with Diskkeeper 10 two days ago,
>>>>>>> (
>>>>>>> it is also set to defrag in the background) but it still has
>>>>>>> this big problem with shutdown.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My 2.8Ghz computer shuts down almost immediately by comparison,
>>>>>>> running the same Windows XP, SP #2 and many more programs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are your ideas here ?